View Full Version : How would you have voted on the Kerry surrender bill?

06-22-2006, 11:40 AM
If you were a Senator, how would you have voted on the Kerry surrender bill?

06-22-2006, 12:36 PM
well hasn't mission been achieved??? We went there to get sodomy insane...we got him PERIOD.

not like last time when bush number one pulled out too early! guess bush number two had to clean the egg from daddy's face...lol

06-22-2006, 12:53 PM
Is that a vote yes, surrender, or no don't surrender?

06-22-2006, 01:17 PM
I guess since we did what we did I think we should stay till they are on their own feet. Not go over, wreck the place cause anarchy, and come home to see how its going to pan out...maybe end up over a third time.

I just hope were not getting on a trend were we think we can take over any country we want because they dont comply. otherwise we are on the road of tyranny.

06-22-2006, 02:11 PM
That's a no.

I'm a no as well.

06-22-2006, 02:18 PM
Have to stay a while longer....until its all settled over there, it wont ever be calm there, but it will get more stable

06-22-2006, 02:57 PM
3 "no"s
0 "yes"s

06-22-2006, 07:53 PM
4 no's then and my brother and sister in iraq would vote no if they count on this poll

06-22-2006, 08:02 PM

06-22-2006, 08:36 PM
He** NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to make it Lake Iraq. I am tired of the terrorism and the threats of terrorism. As far as I am concerned we don't need to stop until all threats of Alquida are wiped out. Make them bow before all that fell on 9-11 and say they are sorry and then remove them from this earth. Lets see if they can survive on Mars send them all there and let them play amongst themself. A little strong but I feel strong about our country and the safety of our country.

06-22-2006, 09:04 PM
I am not debating this, nor am I going to post further, I am just trying to clarify. While asking for an opinion of a vote I think you should tell what the vote entailed. Kerry stated, and offered a resolution, that combat, not peacekeeping, troops be removed by july 2007. While there are 126,000 U.S. Coalition soldiers in Iraq there are 218,000 Iragi soldiers fighting there. The Iraqi soldiers have been trained and are continuing to be trained. This has been going on for two years. The boot camp for foot soldiers in America is less than 1 year, and for the special forces it is ongoing but generaly less than 3 years alotted by Kerry's resolution. So with more troops and sufficent training I think the combat troops could leave and fight a real war on terrorism, like say maybe Afghanistan. Or maybe wear the 9/11 hijackers came from, Saudi Arabia. Although terror is a feeling, and a war on a feeling is simply impossible. The amount of Al Quieda in Iraq was minimal while Saddam was in power, and they hid in the Kurdish area, because Saddam would have killed them. Thats right in the no Fly zone that America had such a close watch on. IF you actually pay attention to politics, then you would know that the armed forces had Al Zaquarwi in the sights for an entire year in 2002, before any of this ever happened. He is dead now and is just being repalaced. I feel for the families of the most recent decapitated soldiers, but you must ask yourself will it ever totaly stop. We have had more casulties since we all saw that amazing photo op with Bush on an aircraft carrier with a huge banner in the back that said mission accomplished. There has never been peace in the middle east and never will. In a year from now I definately think that we should limit our forces. News flash Saddam hated Al Quieda too. They threatened his way of ruling. don't confuse Iraq with the Taliban led Afghanistan. And please don't get me started on Iran or N. Korea. Just brush up on facts before you wrecklessly support something. Like I said I will post no more.

06-22-2006, 09:48 PM
What do you think the bad guys will do if we set a solid withdrawl date? They will sit around and hide until the day we leave, then all hell will break loose.

I have personal, and family experience with Arab soldiers, and even with us helping in the training, and even if they meet the same standards that our troops do, they will not be the same. It will take many generations for them to have the same determination, and intestinal fortitude that American soldiers do.

As far as the war on terrorism goes, maybe Iraq wasn't a hotbed before 2003, at this point WHO CARES? It is now, and to surrender now, would allow the Iranians, and Syrians to overtake the place as soon as we leave.

Liberals say they want a plan. Here's a newsflash for you guys. THE PLAN IS TO WIN. That's a hard one for liberals to grasp. To leave now, or in July'07, or any other arbitrary date would be, condemning Iraq as a loss. Liberals live for another Vietnam, well this isn't it. WIN. Learn it, love it.

06-22-2006, 09:50 PM
So far 8 "no"
1 "yes"

Nearly the same ratio by whick Kerry's surrender bill got killed.

06-22-2006, 10:21 PM
It's not a matter of winning or losing now. No matter what happens we will never be the winner. We are now fighting a losing battle.

06-22-2006, 10:43 PM
a defeatist's assertion lonnie, we will win if we have the intestinal fortitude to stay the distance and finish the job.

06-22-2006, 10:50 PM
We have won when we leave behind a stable, strong, and free country that can defend itself from inside as wellas inside threats.

06-22-2006, 11:54 PM
I agree with both of you in the definition of winning. But it is impossible to defeat religion. When people believe in their religion strong enough to die for it at any cost it cannot be defeated. No matter what state we leave this area in it will never be stable.These people have lived their whole lives with their beliefs and it would take another 30 plus years to change it. The new born children would have to be raised with a different belief before things will ever change.
This is just my opinion. I do though thank the many soldiers who are still over there fighting or have gave their life for our freedom.

06-23-2006, 05:47 AM
I think ill make my last post in this thread as well.

imo there are no winners of war, just dead people. War is dead wrong. We are over in other countries fighting a war, the funny thing is what about the war in our own country? We are so busy with all our people over there we cant take care of our own country in emergency....its like WTH!!!!


This is why the UN wants to outlaw religion, and when that happens...if u have any bible knowledge you'll know what that is going to bring on!

06-23-2006, 07:06 AM
Here is the meaning of religion:

re·li·gion (r-ljn)
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion

I think they follow meaning #4.

06-23-2006, 02:18 PM

06-23-2006, 05:06 PM
It seems as if the Iraqi government that we hand selected may be getting ready to ask us to leave. I think it is funny that you can tell whether I am a "liberal" or not as to when I think trrops should leave an area of the world. I agree with Lonnie.

06-23-2006, 05:33 PM
cut and run has done nothing for the other countries that we pulled it on...somalia....vietnam...iraq the first time....why do we think that this would be any different. if we cut and run iraq will be overthrown because the country is full of sheeple that need leading and the govt cant do that just yet....stay the course!

06-23-2006, 05:37 PM
My vote is YES. First off thank you Rungeg for throwing some factual information on the thread. I thought we went to IRAQ to put a stop to there factories making weapons of mass destruction. They have no weapons of mass destruction. The website homestead.com is a biased pro Republican website. The key word is Widely Believed, speculations are not a just cause for going to war. The last page says, "If evidence confimed will the democrats now admit that Saddam did have WMD." We'll we have Saddam and IRAQ, but we have no WMD. To justify war on speculations is a war crime in itself. Try killing your neighbor then justifying it by saying I thought he was going to kill me. There's a minute chance the jurors will believe that. As far as terrorism it's a fact that IRAQ or Saddam did not initiate 9-11, Saddam did not get along with Al-Quieda or the Taliban like Rungeg said they were a threat to his rule. We should take more of tax payers dollars and fix all that we have destroyed like logistics, plumbing, electric..etc and pull out. The mistake that we can not fix is the thousands to hundred of thousands of innocent IRAQ's that we have killed. Wait until their sons and daughters grow up and then become terrorists. Do you blame them. You killed their family. The middle east has always had turbulence and has never been conquered. Remember the Christian Crusades. If somebody marched onto your land with guns drawn, murdered relatives, and destroyed your property how would you take it. These men fighting are a determined enemy that will never run or hide like an earlier post said. There using tactics that will ensure their survival. Remember the American Revolution, we didn't win because we marched head to head with the British we won because of men in civilian clothes took arms and defended their homeland by using guerilla tactics. I love my country I'm not Republican or Democrat, but I'm sick of Republicans calling everyone Liberals because they are not crazy about an unjust war. We can't win a war by killing all of Terrorism, because that will never happen. Our leaders of our country got us into a mess and the only way to get out is to pull troops and make amends. The american people can help by voting the right officials. 9-11 was a result of bull shit politics by greedy men.
Was Vietnam a mistake, Yes, did we loose yes. Why because we should'nt have been there. Is Vietnam a fine country today are they a threat to us NO. If IRAQ sets up a democratic government did we win. No because we ravaged their country and created another generation of terrorists. They never were a threat to us to begin with.
Another thing IRAQ was always able to defend themselves against inside and outside threats Saddam made sure of that.
The government is misleading fine young men by saying that there fighting for freedom. Hitler also said that to the Germans. PROGAGANDA

06-23-2006, 05:47 PM
imo there are no winners of war, just dead people. War is dead wrong.

So the civil war didn't benefit anyone? revolutionary war didn't benefit anyone?

War has been around longer than any government and will continue to be so. IMO winning the war on terrorism should be aimed at keeping the liberals from jumping from one fad to the next. Keeping their convictions no matter what the cost. After 9-11 everyone wanted a target to hit but no one wanted to pay the price in the end. Let's have a poll to see who supports placing Saddam back in power? Anyone - I thought not. Do any of you who don't support what is going on in Iraq know an actuall Iraqui. Or know anyone actually from the region? or a muslim? I knew a few when I was at school and they were actually great guys. A little demeaning towards women, but what culture isn't. All of them supported invading Iraq to remove Saddam.

Another thing on the whole training only takes a year. What percentage of our army goes through basic in that year? I guarantee its not the same. We already have a readily trained standing army that only needs to train new to rplace the old. Its much different when you have to train an entire army from scratch, as well as a national police force. Not only does it take time to train them, it takes more time to help them gain experience so they can then train themselves. Anyone who supported this type of action after 9-11 and thought it would be an in-and-out war like the last few need to go to the nearest door and slam it into your face.

The United States of America is the only country I know of that spends millions of dollars destroying stuff to complete an objective, only to turn around and spend trillions of dollars to rebuild and support the end goal. If you think freedom is cheap move to France.

06-23-2006, 06:04 PM
To say that the Revolutionary War didn't benefit anyone is ridiculous. It formed what is now called the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Created the constitution etc............ It created the Right Wing and the Left Wing. Don't you think that the U.S. is the greatest country in the world? I bet 98% of the population would say so. If you remember the Boston Tea Party these men were terrorist fighting tryanny over an aggressive and oppressive government. Maybe you should move to France, if you don't believe in the sacrifices that men made to make their homeland a country. Things would have been different had Britian not pushed us to this war. You forget to remember these men were fighting for their freedom to live as they please. Freedom isn't free we have to pay $ for it. Our freedom is not being oppressed from a country who does not occupy us or threaten to occupy us.

06-23-2006, 06:06 PM
I agree that the Civil war was useless? It was unjustified. Another example of men dieing for the guy in the nice suit.

06-23-2006, 07:43 PM
Moeller17- They did just yesterday release one of many classified documents detailing approximately 500 mustard gas shells found in Iraq. And that is just ONE the documents that they released.

As far as war being wrong. Tell that to my Grampa, or as the Germans knew him #457035, liberated by the Russians in 1945.

In my opinion, all Dictators are a threat to us. Especially those who pay money to palestinian suicide bombers. Especially those who use nerve gas. Especially those who invade their peaceful neighbors.

06-23-2006, 07:44 PM
By my count that's 9-2

06-23-2006, 08:16 PM
To say that the Revolutionary War didn't benefit anyone is ridiculous. It formed what is now called the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Created the constitution etc Do you remember from history class that the Constitution wasn't ratified until 1789, a full 13 years after we declared Independence. We did not win the Revolutionary War by using terrorist techniques. I dont like to admit this but we won because the French dumped so much money into our cause and gave us so many troops that it eventually led to the French Revolution. Our revolution CAUSED the French revolution. You know you people seem to forget about how these towl head sonsabitches flew planes in to the WTC and killed 3000 plus Americans. You all claim to be patriots and you make excuses for the reason that those worthless 'slums killed our countrymen!!! AMERICANS!! An American life is worth more to me than any other life in this world! Why are you naysayers such nancy boys? A little sand in the clitoris and you want to cut and run! America will lose all respect in the world community if we run from this war like the left would have us do. Remember that the radicals of the world love the American left. Iran overthrew our embassy in Tehran and held it for 444 days because our Prez was a feminine man who didnt know how to stand for anything. No country would dare have done this to us before we cut and run in Vietnam. It wasnt til the great man Reagan was inaugerated that the Iranians let the hostages go...same day! Coincidence? I think not. The world needs to know, especially the 'slum world that America carries a big stick and will use it if necessary. Until the men in this country start acting like men and get mad when our homeland is attacked we will not be secure. So you have to ask yourself, do you want to lay down like a woman or fight like a man because people around the world would take your life because you are from the U.S. of A

06-23-2006, 09:31 PM
I know when the constitution was ratified but to say that the war didn't cause that to happen is ridiculous. I know you were a badass andrew because you spent some time in the sand. Your getting a little pissed and loosing focus. I believe towelheads are different than IRAQ's. A patriot is one who fights against an aggressor towards his country that he/she loves. I just don't see that with this war against IRAQ (not the taliban, Al Quieda). If your implying that I cut and run your dead wrong. I wanted to kill and kick ass what young guy doesn't. How many young men died for Hitler and Ceasars unjust cause. Life's not always about being the bad ass, we don't run the rest of the world it's been here long before this country came about. I live here I love it here but I don't have to do or agree with what ever Mr. Bush says or believes. That's what makes America, America. I have family members missing in IRAQ. I have cousins who are in the SEALS, I have Brother-In-Laws who did their time as Marines. All but one have negative feelings toward this war. And all of them respect me as a man. They would never call me a nancy boy because they would end up on their back, Patriot or not. A life is a life american men are no better than a european man, iraqi man etc.., we all have our own believes only God is to judge which one is right and wrong. If your all afraid of being attacked by nerve gas sign up, send your sons and daughters to Iraq to collect empty shells. We have more WMD than anybody should the world gang up and attack us.

06-23-2006, 09:48 PM
moeller you are like a lot of the anti war movement talking out of both sides of your mouth. you said "If your implying that I cut and run your dead wrong" but a few posts earilier you said, "We should take more of tax payers dollars and fix all that we have destroyed like logistics, plumbing, electric..etc and pull out." so which is it? We cut and run or we stand up and fight?

06-23-2006, 09:51 PM
moeller you obviously didn't get the post.

The revolutionary war benefited us as americans.

The civil war benefited blacks as it ultimately made the country take issue with slavery.

Granted neither war solved it immidiately, the main focus was that war does actually solve problems no matter what your mommy told you when you were little.

As far as WMD go. WTF do you call the scuds that were released as the troops rolled through Iraq to begin with. Even with their conventional payloads, they were still on the banned weapons list.

I again reiterate, ask an Iraqi if they are releaved or happy with the US pressence and war.

And as for killing Iraqis, if you haven't been paying attention it isn't Iraqis attacking the troops. 90 percent of the insurgents are from outside countries, and the insurgents have killed 100x more iraqis than the us invasion/ occupation did/ has.

We'll see how the country feels at election time.

06-23-2006, 09:59 PM
moeller- btw i am not some badass for serving over there, i am no different than any other serviceman but i do have the commitment to stand up and die if need be for our country

06-24-2006, 01:27 AM
Yep, the civil war made us take issue with slavery. This is something I would hear from a fourth grader. The Civil War had very little to do with slavery, stop reading childrens history books and look at the real reasons that war was fought. No unjust wars create problems they don't solve them. There's a difference between just and unjust wars. Just because your home teams fighting doesn't make it right. My mommy taught me a lot of great things, thanks for reminding me. By the way leave my mom out of this. It's very rude to talk about her that way.
Andrew I believe we should fix logistics and pull out. My saying, "If your implying that I cut and run your dead wrong." Does not mean that we should stay and fight." I kinda got the impression that you were calling me a coward because I'm against this war. So I guess I used the wrong expression. I was trying to say that I've never cut and run from anything in my life. Don't confuse me with a democrat because I'm not one. Nor do I sit on the left side. I disagree with the war period. I am bitter because I think this war is leading the U.S in the wrong direction.
I've spent too much time with this thread. I'm done, my wife is getting mad. By the way hope nobody takes this personal I still need some aquarium supplies.
VOTE no for the PATRIOT act so, the government doesn't confuse you with a terrorist and spy on you, breaking the BILL OF RIGHTS.

I'll see during election time. Can't wait whose running Bozo the Clown, Jeb Bush, The Reverend, or whoever the SAUDI's pick.

11-05-2006, 07:02 PM
Well... Heres my $0.02 worth. First, I served in the first Gulf War. Been there, done that, got a T-shirt. Saw a lot of bad stuff; bad stuff that Saddam did to his own people. Did Iraq have WMD's? You bet your a$$ they did. When we bombed the crap out of a chem munitions storage facility north of Mosul, the chem detectors hundreds of miles to the south went off 14 hours later. And there was more, but I'm not about to discuss that on a web site. You know, our troops found 2 squadrons (that's 48 aircraft) of MiG 21's and 23's BURIED in the desert about 4 months after capturing Saddam. We didn't know about it before via recon assets, so how hard was it to bury or truck to another country all of the WMD's? Just remember, enough nerve agent to wipe out most of Cincinnati would fit in a 5-gallon bucket. A soda can of weaponized anthrax would do the same. Or, a 50 cc sryinge of weaponized smallpox taking out the Eastern Seaboard of the US. Real easy to hide this stuff, and we know for a fact that they had all three plus many others.

I don't know any of you people and you do not know me. But, my answer is a resounding "No." We went to Iraq with a purpose, and we need to see it through. I will go one further... This will not end (global terrorism) in our lifetimes. Additionally, until we make an example out of a "rogue state" (read that as Iran, N Korea, Syria, etc.), countries supporting terrorist activities to further their own causes will continue to add fuel to the fire.

Yes, I am former USAF, and military retired. I'll be the first to tell you that the military is not a bunch of warmongers. We are the last to want war. However, another event like September 11th and I personally would be willing to push the launch button.

I'll also tell you that Echelon has been spying on the American people a hell of a lot longer than anything dreamed up by the Bush administration. All of us have been spied upon since about 1978 or so. Nothing has changed, except a mass media who wants everyone to know what we're doing so that the "bad guys" can work around our methods.

Put me down in the "NO" column. The nice thing about America is that we can have this discussion without cursing each other or worrying about someone kicking down our door in the dark of night... even with the Patriot Act.

Best to all.

11-05-2006, 07:25 PM
wow thats a blast from the past

11-05-2006, 07:31 PM
Yep. Just happened to read it. i assume there's no statute of limitations on a post...

11-05-2006, 09:11 PM
haha nope

11-06-2006, 06:26 AM
Well said Kev....I have to agree on all your points..... thanks for serving our Country

Coral Pets
02-03-2007, 03:02 PM
I vote no. Need to get some military bases built in Iraq, and get the oil flowing back here to the USA.

02-03-2007, 03:20 PM
something about this thread keeps it coming back to the surface, its like a bad nickel lol