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BigRick08
06-09-2006, 08:41 AM
Do you guys think god forgives the average man who kills someone in a war?

andrewr
06-09-2006, 08:52 AM
good question I have asked many people this and haven't gotten a straight answer

06-09-2006, 10:22 AM
i believe that if a man has a good heart and lives a good life outside of "war" and does nothing to dis-honor himself in "war" then he will have nothing to fear after death.


assuming he has done what the bible says one must do to enter heaven.

mrs. justcoral
06-09-2006, 10:33 AM
I think if you ask for forgiveness, then you will be forgiven.

andrewr
06-09-2006, 10:41 AM
but thats for christians and they believe in the 10 commandments and one of the commandments is thou shalt not kill. depending on the type of christian you are this might lead to a totally different subject of i.e. excepting Jesus or different degrees of sin

mrs. justcoral
06-09-2006, 11:40 AM
are there different degrees of sin or is each sin looked at equally?

andrewr
06-09-2006, 11:45 AM
back to the depends on your faith line. my personal belief is how can there not be degrees of sin? if jeffrey dalmer accepts jesus on his death bed and mahatma ghandi never accepted jesus because he was hindu (i think) would dalmer get into heaven and ghandi go to hell? if ghandi didnt go to hell where did he go? purgatory? i have come to find that there is not an answer for the soldier question. when i was in iraq i met a catholic cardinal emmissary and i asked him and a cardinal gave me the run around and avoided the question for 10 minutes! i dont think anyone knows the answer to this and i guess I will have to figure out when i meet saint pete

large_mouth_bass_1_each
06-09-2006, 02:24 PM
wELL i NEVER SEEN ANYTHING TO SUPPORT (cap lock lol) killing in the Bible. It's just the opposite. So no I don't think God forgives killing.

Also from my reading there is no heaven, there is the "New world"(Gods world) after armageddon. Satan will be caged for a 1000y after he has ruled since 1914.

Dolfan0925
06-09-2006, 02:57 PM
God forgives sin. The 10 commandments were more to demonstrate what God expects of us, to demonstrate that everybody sins. Nobody lives their life without breaking a commandment. All sins may not be the same, but sin can't enter heaven. So everyone must ask forgiveness to get into heaven.

That's usually pretty universally accepted, it's how you are forgiven that everyone argues about.

toastman
06-09-2006, 04:22 PM
God forgives those who ask forgiveness...God is incredible in his ability to forgive, we killed his son, and he still loves us, do not worry about what a Catholic Priest tells you, or Cardinal, I was raised Catholic and confirmed, but the church refused to marry me to my wife when I got out of college because I had attended an on campus Catholic Church during college and not my old neighborhood Church, and then when my Sister-in-law had twins but one was still born, the Catholic priest refused to baptise her dead son, because he had been born dead, but somehow they feel that abortion kills a life, how can you not baptise an innocent still born fully developed child because its wasnt born alive, and in the same breath say that an unborn child is a life? Catholics have some issues to work out....anyway, God and Jesus, as first about love and compassion..... and God understands that war is about survival, and protecting your faith, and family, and that when necessary killing has to be forgiven....besides isnt a life a life? How could killing a person be any differnent then killing say a deer with your car? I think GOD forgives, hes awesome....... DID you hear me thump my bible?

andrewr
06-09-2006, 05:00 PM
All sins may not be the same, but sin can't enter heaven. So everyone must ask forgiveness to get into heaven.

So since the time of Adam and Eve we have been cursed with Original Sin. What happens to children that cannot ask for forgiveness before they die? They die before baptism or they dont get baptised but die as an infant. With original sin they can enter into heaven? I dont buy this in the least, if God were to do that, he wouldnt be much of an understanding God would He?
Toastman-What if everyone is right that this war has nothing to do with us but the oil? (I dont believe that anyone!!) Wars such as the Crusades were fought over greed and had NOTHING to do with spreading the faith. It was a Pope on a power trip. Those men fought, killed, and died for nothing...does God forgive their killing? I have thought back to what cbell said about not doing anything dishonorable. At the time of the Crusades their thought of dishonorable would be different than how we would think of dishonorable today. Does this mean that the meaning of killing has changed over the years? I dont know if this makes sense, if it doesnt i will try to clarify.

BigRick08
06-09-2006, 05:41 PM
hmmm...I still say F*ck the Iraqi's!

large_mouth_bass_1_each
06-09-2006, 05:53 PM
Gods main attributes are, love, justice, wisdom and power. He reads heart conditions. Then decided who will be sesurrected. Maybe who were not satan's foot solders, have the chance of resurrection. And then they will be given the chance to learn the good news and go accordingly.

and yes god forgive those who ask, its how ua respond after that affects wether ua will make it to the new world. if go back to your old ways, ua loose your place in the new world, and when armageddon comes, ur guts with spill out on the ground, and ur blood will dry up and pour out on the ground like sand.

by the way, can some of u tell me ur interpretation of heaven???

cause its really here on earth as a paradise, as in was originally intended, not some place in the sky.


buy the way, did u know jesus died in april on a steak, not dec 25 on a cross. it says t right in the bible. so for those of u who are tought different, ask urself why they would teach u other than the truth.

andrewr
06-09-2006, 06:50 PM
the interpretation of armageddon is along the lines of your pointing out that jesus died in april. some of peoples comments on here are very subjective to the judeo-christian idea of life and the end of times and we speak as such experts when there are billions of people that dont believe this. i think this is why it is and always will be a hot-to-touch button. btw the name armageddon comes from a battle in ancient egyptian battle at meggido where the egyptians destroy an army much larger than itself, i believe they were the hiksos but i may be mistaken....

andrewr
06-09-2006, 06:52 PM
Here are my thoughts on religion. Religion will be the downfall of man. Man's own ego will eventually destroy itself because of our quest to convince people of something that we dont really know ourselves (the afterlife) Why cant man just admit that we dont know what happens?

maddyfish
06-09-2006, 09:10 PM
In Hebrew the 6th commandment is thou shalt not MURDER, not thou shalt not kill.

Righteous killing does not need forgiveness.

maddyfish
06-09-2006, 09:15 PM
For instance: if a man breaks into my house and threatons my life, and the lives of my family, I would kill him. That would not be murder. I would not feel remorse, and I would not be sorry.

In war it depends. In '73 my father was in the IDF when the Arabs attacked. He killed in defense of country. Not murder.

In the current war, liberating 25 million people is a noble purpose, and enemies killed in battle are not murder. Others accidentally killed in battle are not murder. But, if a man walks into Saddam's court hearing and shoots him. That would be murder.

andrewr
06-09-2006, 09:16 PM
maddy i was waiting for you to chime in with this! :) This just goes to show that there are different outlooks on this in each religion. Jews look at it like this and Christians say oh well just repent and be sincere......my only question is when is any killing righteous??

andrewr
06-09-2006, 09:18 PM
how about when the Israelis go into the West Bank to kick out their own people? The IDF are raiding peoples private property and seizing it in the name of peace with a people that only want the annihilation of the Jewish race. Would the settlers have the right to kill the IDF in defense of their homes?

maddyfish
06-09-2006, 09:23 PM
Kicking out our own people is a MISTAKE. Men, one of my uncles included, in '67 fought and died for that land.

I have a few cousins who were kicked out of Eli, in the west bank. Yes, I believe the settlers had the right to kill in defense of their homes.

maddyfish
06-09-2006, 09:27 PM
Something to understand, the "settlers" of the west bank and gaza, are not well off, socially desirable, or powerful politically. Kicking them out was an easy lazy appeasement. And Sharon in paying for it right now.

large_mouth_bass_1_each
06-09-2006, 11:16 PM
The only comment I can make about all this war and killing is, ask yourself who is running this world right now? Its Satan's world, therefor I feel its all pretty much against God. He doesn't condone killing.

andrewr
06-09-2006, 11:23 PM
bass-so if God doesnt condone killing....do soldiers that kill in battle go to heaven when they die, brings us back to the original question

maddy-doesnt God's law supercede the laws of man though and killing is condemned?

guys i am kinda playing the devils advocate here because I have been thinking about this question for a long time (since I did what I did in the war) I have had real problems justifying my actions and nobody can seem to give me the straight word you know what I mean. I was brought up in a very religious Catholic home and I have done things that go against my faith and worry about it you know.

toastman
06-09-2006, 11:54 PM
Andrew, as I said before, God is great and he will forgive, not like, an oops I am sorry, but if you truly feel sorrow and pain, and remorse, and worry about others, I am sure God will forgive, if not, I dont think Heaven will be what I know in my heart it is.

large_mouth_bass_1_each
06-10-2006, 12:12 AM
well that brings me right back to what i said before...there is no heaven.

The dead are just that dead. They will be resurrected in the new world if God see fit.

maddyfish
06-10-2006, 07:31 PM
Andrew- killing is not condemned. Murder is.

large_mouth_bass_1_each
06-10-2006, 10:59 PM
on the subject of war, what price do u think we are going to pay for the death of this last towel head???

I really wonder if we are going to have another death count?

andrewr
06-10-2006, 11:14 PM
screw zarqawi, we cant worry about the reprecussions for killing that a-hole. this is a question that i have heard a lot already and i respond with that this is the guy that cut nick bergs head off on video tape. he had to die and i am glad we sent him to hell

maddyfish
06-11-2006, 12:47 PM
Agreed